Over the weekend, writer Christopher Rufo debated billionaire Mark Cuban on the topic of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) in major companies across the nation.
The debate began on Sunday night, when Cuban responded to Dr. Jordan Peterson regarding his defense of DEI policies.
After a short exchange, in which Cuban defended his own words, by describing “Equity” as “Equality of outcomes,” he quoted Rufo’s book, “America’s Cultural Revolution: How the Radical Left Conquered Everything.”
“The great weakness of the cultural revolution is that it negates the metaphysics, morality, and stability of the common citizen. As it undermines the institutions of family, faith, and community, it creates a void in the human heart that cannot be,” Cuban wrote, quoting Rufo.
In response, Rufo challenged Cuban to a “long form discussion and debate about DEI,” which Cuban accepted. The two argued regarding the point of government being able to be less dysfunctional, and discussed a bit about former President Trump before pivoting back to the DEI discussion.
“On DEI, I sense you are genuinely committed to helping people move up, which is admirable and a goal that I share. But in practice, as I have reported, DEI often trades in discrimination, scapegoating, and pseudo-science,” Rufo wrote, attaching a grouping of some of his own reporting about DEI in corporate America. “In practice…It’s not a pretty picture.”
The two debated regarding Trump, American political parties, and other things for some time before pivoting back to DEI at the request of Rufo.
“I’m a believer that at least 30 percent of our government spend is wasted and we need technologically literate politicians who can start to define what government as a service can look like to make it all less expensive and more impactful,” Cuban began.
“Our country is stronger when we raise the standard of living and reduce networth inequality for all citizens. Which leads us back to DEI. Which part of my definition do you disagree with?” Cuban asked, linking a previous conversation he had in which he defined DEI.
“The best way to understand DEI is to separate the marketing pitch—which, I agree, is attractive—from the reality of DEI in practice,” Rufo argued. “Here is how I see it.”
“Diversity: We agree that it is important for people of all backgrounds to be treated fairly. But ‘diversity’ in the political sense means treating individuals as a representation of their group identity, sorting them into a hierarchy based on the ‘oppressor-oppressed’ dynamic, and then discriminating for or against certain groups on that basis,” Rufo said. “In practice, it means putting identity above merit, rewarding and punishing individuals based on their ancestry and, increasingly, their political ideology. In academia, for example, ‘diversity statements’ are used to measure conformity to left-wing racial theories.”
“Equity: We agree that we should maximize opportunity for all. But ‘equity’ is a political ideology that is distinct from, and contradictory to, ‘equality.’ In the highest sense, equality means that the state should treat individuals impartially, as in “equality under law,” while recognizing that individuals have different talents, desires, and motivations, which will inevitably lead to inequalities,” Rufo continued. “In a sense, you cannot have equality without inequality—they are two sides of the same coin. ‘Equity,’ on the other hand, treats all inequality as illegitimate and attempts to force group equalization, or ‘equality of outcomes,’ through redistribution of wealth and property. This is a key tenet of critical race theory.
“Inclusion: We agree that institutions should have constructive, creative environments. But in practice, ‘inclusion’ is a code word for a distinct, left-wing orthodoxy and is used to suppress disfavored groups and opinions. At many universities, DEI administrators publish speech codes in the name of ‘inclusion’ that restrict the range of discourse and speech on campus. Additionally, the ‘inclusion’ principle is never extended to supposed ‘oppressor’ groups, such as whites, men, and Christians—instead, it becomes a form of exclusion,” Rufo added. “We can see this in the real world with many institutions implementing ‘hate,’ ‘bias,’ and ‘safe space’ policies, which, in practice, are used to silence dissent and, especially, conservative speech.
Cuban then retorted, arguing that he had “never” seen Equity described in such a way.
“Never in my professional career have I ever heard a CEO of a company of any size infer the following or anything close : ‘“Equity,” on the other hand, treats all inequality as illegitimate and attempts to force group equalization, or “equality of outcomes,” through redistribution of wealth and property,’” Cuban argued. “You are the researcher. Can you show me any interviews with CEOs of American companies where the CEO says anything close to this?”
“Absolutely, I will share ten stories with original source documentation proving that this is, in fact, how many, if not most, Fortune 100 companies consider DEI,” Rufo said, providing the list below, which showcased instances from Google, Walmart, Verizon, AT&T, Bank of America, American Express, Raytheon, Disney, Lockheed Martin, and CVS.
Writer and Dilbert Creator Scott Adams praised Rufo for his astute observations, writing on X, “If you are not following this ongoing debate, you are missing a great show. Mark Cuban had no idea how DEI works in the real world.
“In the real world, if your CEO says diversity is a company priority, the managers begin overtly discriminating against White males and it never stops,” he continued. “No one cares what vocabulary words the CEO used. Managers respond to incentives. Period. It has been this way for at least three decades. If you need a witness to my claim, stop any White guy on the street and ask if he worked in a big company. You’ll hear the same story every time.”
Cuban has not responded to Rufo’s latest message.
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